Design x Bobbie Wood
Founder and CEO at UX Writers Collective
Illustration by Bonnie Kate Wolf
Interview conducted by Nick Harris on September 28, 2020
Hi Bobbie, tell us a bit about yourself.
Hi! I grew up in Cupertino. It’s an unusual place in that very few real locals still live there, as most appear to have moved out searching for affordable housing. Of course, millions have moved in since, but they’re not locals. Growing up with Apple computers in my backyard was really cool. I remember the first tiny Apple building—my sister and her friends all worked there and knew Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak personally. One of my first jobs was waiting tables at a health food restaurant, and I remember serving the “Steves.”
I’ve been in Silicon Valley my whole life except for a short stint in Massachusetts when my husband’s job took us there. It was really neat, so much history compared to the West Coast. My first “real” job was with a publishing company that made elementary-school textbooks. I was a project manager and worked with desktop publishers and photo editors. It was fun, I liked it, but it didn’t pay well, so I ended up moving into tech. I worked for a start-up where I did just about everything at first. I managed a rebranding of the company, helped with sales, and was also a database administrator of sorts. That’s when I started developing websites—I built their corporate website around 1996.
That particular start-up didn’t go anywhere due to the dot.com crash that happened at the time, but this turn of events kicked me over into the field of technical writing. I had kids by this point and discovered that writing was a good fit for me, as it could be done as a consultant. It was an excellent match for my technical background—I knew SQL, mobile operating systems, website design, and how to communicate with developers. So that’s how I fell into writing and designing software. I went on to work for several start-ups, writing everything end to end for them, from marketing and support articles to landing pages and user interface (UI) text for mobile apps.
Did something inspire you to take this creative journey into the tech world, or did it happen because you kind of grew up surrounded by it?
Well, I was definitely surrounded by it growing up. Tech had this aura to it, like the Gold Rush of 1849 all over again. It felt like it would be the next big thing, and you just knew you had to get involved somehow.
There were no user experience (UX) writers or designers back then— UX hadn’t evolved into a formal discipline yet. Actually, a lot of what we were doing back then—building apps—was just winging it. We did what we saw other people doing. Bad UI was everywhere though, which frustrated me. I felt naturally compelled to fix it, seeing as I’d always been drawn to writing.
Was it just the writing, or did it the design annoy you as well?
It was both, but mostly the writing. I looked at the way the words guided the user, and in most cases, it frustrated me. At the time, many apps and experiences spoke to users like they were developers—they couldn’t see that consumers had no idea what they were talking about. You have to speak to consumers in their language, make it easy and straightforward, and choose words they’d use themselves.
“You have to speak to consumers in their language, make it easy and straightforward, and choose words they’d use themselves.”
There was a saying: the more you had to explain a UI, the more obvious it was flawed. I would find myself writing around some poorly designed feature and having to say, “This isn’t working” to the product managers and developers. It felt like working backward. The product would already be built, and here you were, trying to make changes after the fact. The whole concept of good design is to figure these issues out before the product is built, not after. The writing was, and always will be, a vital component to building great apps from the get-go.
What companies were going out of their way to make their products user friendly at that time?
Google was a trendsetter insofar as their product interfaces were brutally simple. Instead of trying to master everything, they did a few key things really simply and really well. Take Microsoft Word, for example—you can do mail merges for days and create highly structured documents. With Google Docs though, you write, you edit, you share. That’s it. They built that app for a vast user base of billions of people.
I didn’t even realize how many users a billion was until I worked at Google. This product manager once said to me, “This feature doesn’t work for 1% of the users.” I thought, “One percent? No big deal.” I was used to going by the 80/20 rule working in start-ups. If it works for 80% of users, you’re in pretty good shape, as you just create a workaround for the other 20%. But 1% of a billion is 10,000,000 people, and really makes you realize how significant a number a billion really is. Working with a vast user base, you have to really pay attention and make sure things are simple and straightforward. Google was a trendsetter in this regard, as they were really trying to be simple.
Before long, many start-ups were pushing the envelope by talking directly to users and making the language fun, conversational, and delightful. I was one of the people moving things in this direction, mostly for consumer apps. Dropbox was a great example of a company getting it the right early on. There was a lot of experimenting going on—gamification, fun language, and delight—all designed to get users more engaged and actually enjoy the experience versus just grinding through a task.
This reminds me of my first Macbook. It started right up straight out the box and said, “Hello.” It was a pleasant surprise, much better than having to install a whole pile of disks.
I agree. The UI from Microsoft and Windows was pretty terrible at the time, a bunch of boxes and clunky interactions, grids everywhere. Meanwhile, over at some other companies building mobile apps and SaaS applications, folks were rethinking the user experience, making a huge difference. Designers already knew consumers wanted you to talk to them like humans, but now it was happening in the Windows dominated business world as well. Designers were finally looking at the whole B2B world and refreshing it with friendlier language. Why not, right? After all, business users are people too.
What’s it like working in tech from a woman’s perspective?
I won’t pull any punches here; it can be pretty miserable at times. I’m a bit older, and hopefully, people coming in now will have a different experience from mine, but there are a lot of culturally ingrained behaviors that any woman can relate to. Awareness has grown hugely in the past few years, though, and people are getting better at recognizing diversity. “Oh, Google employs 70% men? Well, maybe we should do something about that.”
There are times where I have been the only woman in a room full of male leaders, and it can be really hard trying to influence and make things happen. When I was coming up, there were things you could count on, for example, having men speak over you, or you say something in a meeting, and everybody just sort of murmurs. Or how about when the guy next to you says the exact same thing you just said, but because he’s a guy, everybody sits up and pays attention. That particular one drove me nuts.
I’ve had to endure this endlessly. Thankfully it’s becoming less acceptable to not be cool to women and minorities in the workplace. Still, the more women and minorities act like they deserve to have a say in meetings and decisions, the better everything will be in the long run.
Why is it important to design for accessibility and inclusivity?
One of the things that I really pushed for with the UX Writers Collective is to give away a ton of scholarships. I was disappointed in the lack of resources for people wanting to get into tech. There was a point where I was very disenchanted with the industry as a whole because it felt like it was just a bunch of 20-year-old white guys making apps to impress each other. I was like, “Wait, there are real problems in the world that need solving. Can we maybe focus on getting those funded instead?”
A long time ago, I got accepted into what used to be called Startup School. I wanted to build a laundry folding machine I’d envisioned. I remember I was like, “So, you can make an app that keeps track of your dating life, but what about solving real-life problems like folding laundry?”
I could use one of those machines. How would you describe your leadership style?
I tend to think of myself as being a decent leader but not a great one. I’ve always found the human management aspect hard because I don’t like being responsible for somebody else’s livelihood. If somebody’s performance isn’t up to par, I don’t always point it out. Maybe they’re having issues outside of the workplace. What if they’re facing personal conflict somewhere? I much prefer to lead projects than to manage people.
I also don’t like the inhumanity of always pushing for more money, more product, and more sales. The building, creativity, and design are super fun and cool, but ultimately the job is to build a product that sells. That “Hello” screen on a brand new Apple product? It’s there to delight the user, but ultimately, its purpose is to sell more products.
I worked at Intuit for a while as a design thinking coach. They were huge on empathy there, which I absolutely loved. There was this product manager there who couldn’t understand why we would bother with all this empathy business. He was like, “Why do we need to say nice things to users or be funny? They just want to get their stuff done.” I replied, “Because empathy helps them trust the product and makes them feel that not only can they get their stuff done, but that the company is on their side as well.”
What are some of the biggest challenges facing designers these days?
In the design community, at least for UX writing, there’s this deep recognition that we want to get back to the humanity of helping people and helping them get their stuff done. I think it’s on us to make sure that we’re pushing for that. We’re advocates for users—our job is to help people understand what’s going on with their data. What do their interactions mean, what’s the context, what are the consequences? Unfortunately, we can’t always do it though. Sometimes a company will say, “No, that’s too much honesty.” You’re sort of caught in this middle ground between trying to do good for the people and doing good work for the company. Ultimately, you’re being paid by the company, so it’s a fine line.
A lot of people see Google as this big, monolithic tech company. While they certainly have the power to be, I find them to be actually quite constrained. There are many terrific people at Google, and they are definitely looking out for the user. I really appreciated that while I was there.
I think it’s crucial to be comfortable with where you stand morally. Some people refuse to work for Facebook, for example, because they disagree with the way they are doing business. Many designers take this type of thing seriously and look for work in nonprofits or companies with a conscience.
What led you to establish UX Writers Collective and write UX writing courses?
My job at Google was very demanding, with long hours. I had some family stuff going on at the time and needed to be home more for that, so one day, I just left. As a hiring manager at Google, I’d seen many resumes come in over the years. Many candidates just slapped “UX writer” at the top of their resumes but had no actual UX writing skills, no design skills, or even experience working with UI. That’s when I realized we desperately needed specialized training, but there was a lack of training programs for UX writers at the time. I fleshed out the course with some other folks then put out a call on LinkedIn, “Hey, does anybody want to join this effort?” and an insane number of people responded, which was incredible.
Is there a project that you’re especially proud of?
Well, starting my own company was pretty great. I always had aspirations to do so but thought for sure it would be a tech start-up, not an online school. I am super proud of the school, though, but if I had to say what I’m most proud of, it would be helping develop UX writing as a discipline over the years. There are several expressions I feel I coined, and now they’re everywhere. It’s super cool.
The COVID-19 pandemic has affected us all—how has it affected the design community?
Well, I think there have actually been some positives, as a lot of people seem to love working remotely. You get to spend more time with your kids, which is fantastic, especially if they’re little.
I wrote a blog post right before COVID, asking why more companies weren’t allowing remote work. It’s so much greener not driving all the time. Of course, the downside is that it’s harder to collaborate, especially for those who’ve just started a new role. I experienced this as a consultant. It’s tough to keep track of who’s who, and you don’t really get the nuance of relationships. Also, it’s harder to build rapport and much much harder to whiteboard. Everything becomes a little trickier when you’re not in the same room, figuring something out together as a team.
What is the next big thing down the pipeline for UX writing?
What’s evident to me right now is that voice user interface (VUI) will eventually be the dominant UI. I think UX writers have the opportunity to become VUI designers and create these dialogues. There are limitations to voice that are just sort of inherent. Let’s say you’re sitting on a bus or train; you’re not going to want your device to read your private texts aloud to everyone around you. Overall, I think UX writers will become VUI designers over time and get used to working multimodally.
“I think UX writers will become VUI designers over time and get used to working multimodally.”
What’s your advice for new designers or people wanting to follow this path?
Three things.
One: Don’t forget to focus on cohesion and continuity across an experience. Many designers design one screen at a time, but you have to step back and look at the whole experience to make sure it’s cohesive.
Two: Trust in yourself, and don’t be afraid to try new things. Design is a dynamic creative space, so if you’ve figured out a way to make something better for users, speak up and make it happen—it’s no good keeping it to yourself. Talk to developers and find out what tools they have to help you. Think about how you can get in front of leadership and get them to see your way of thinking. That core creative aspect of really looking at things anew is crucial. Design is all about vision.
“Trust in yourself, and don’t be afraid to try new things.”
The third piece of advice is this—if you are a super visual person but not good at writing words, that’s okay—go and be a kick-ass visual designer. No one’s saying you have to be good at everything. Likewise, if you’re good at writing, but not color choices, go be a writer. People make fantastic products when they work together. I love the collaboration between researchers, motion designers, visual designers, and word designers and how everybody brings their unique awesomeness to the table.
This brings me back to diversity and inclusion. The concept of psychological space cannot be understated. If you’re the only Black person in a room full of people designing a product, you should feel comfortable enough to speak up. Likewise, if you’re a woman or Hispanic or have a heavy accent. It’s essential that you feel your ideas are as valuable as anybody else’s, and that your perspective counts.
Is there anything totally random, like beekeeping, for example, that you’ve always really wanted to do?
Yes, so much stuff! Last summer, I got to do a whole bunch of cool things I had been dying to do. I went to Alaska and kayaked with otters and killer whales, which was so amazing. I’d love to write more, too, as I have so many book ideas. I’d like to learn to sail one day and take a boat around the Greek islands. Beekeeping sounds pretty cool. Actually, I love trying new stuff.
Where’s one of your favorite places?
I went to the City of Rhodes in the Greek Islands last summer, which was incredible. So much history, outstanding food, and the people were beautiful—such a lovely place.
