Design x Brenon Kalu
Product Designer at Etsy
Illustration by Casey Magnuson
Interview conducted by Kalea Palaby on August 1, 2021
Can you share a little bit about yourself and what you currently do?
My name is Brenon Kalu. I’m originally from the Bay Area, but I’m currently based out of Brooklyn, New York, where I work as a Product Designer on the Customer Resolutions team at Etsy. I help customers resolve their issues by designing intuitive self-service tools and support experiences that help keep the Etsy marketplace safe. I also create internal tools that help Etsy admin do their jobs more effectively.
Outside of work, I love curating playlists on Spotify, going for walks around my neighborhood, hanging out with friends, playing basketball, and, outside of the pandemic, traveling.
How did you get into UX and product design?
I studied information systems at San Diego State University to pursue a career in business and technology. After I graduated in 2013, I got a job as a data analyst at a healthcare revenue management company. I helped build reports, monitor data in the data pipeline, and improve data visualization. While researching some data visualizations, I came across a web experience called “Behind the Bloodshed,” a digital experience that visualized all of the mass murders in the United States. I was blown away by the experience and started asking myself questions like “Who’s designing these things?” and “How are they creating this?” After further research, I discovered the term “user experience design” and was immediately hooked. From there, I enrolled at a local community college to learn the fundamentals of design and started teaching myself a little bit of front-end through Codecademy.
Shortly after, a couple key moments in my career occurred. First, I was laid off from that job as a data analyst, which prompted me to move back up to the Bay Area to give startups a try. I took on another job as a marketing operations specialist but got laid off from that job as well. I took these two layoffs as a sign that I was not following the right path professionally. I decided instead, it was time for me to pursue user experience design as a career.
I enrolled in a three-month boot camp to study product and UX design, which was an excellent way to cut my teeth in the design industry. Three months later, I ended up getting my first job at a design agency. Although I had finally landed my first gig, I still had a lot of imposter syndrome. I wanted to dedicate more time to hone my research and visual design skills, so I enrolled in a master’s program at UC Irvine, where I studied human–computer interaction and design. During that program, I got an internship at Bloomberg, which brought me to New York, and led to me working in many different industries before landing at Etsy.
“Although I had finally landed my first gig, I still had a lot of imposter syndrome.”
What are some of the hardest parts of your job as a product designer?
First off, I feel an immense sense of privilege to be a product designer. When I think about the current global pandemic, I think about how people put their health on the line for their families and livelihoods. When I think about what I do versus what they do, I realize my job is not that hard. Some things might be a bit frustrating, or there might be annoyances, but when I take a step back and look at the bigger picture, I’m privileged to have the job that I have, and I am very grateful to be a product designer.
With that said, I will say that one of the more challenging things about being a designer is that you are painting a vision for what the ideal product and the ideal experience can look like, but there are a multitude of barriers that can get in the way of creating that perfect experience. It could be that some people might not believe in the vision you are trying to develop, or they might see gaps in it and not be entirely confident in the direction that you’re trying to take them. Maybe you do not have the right pieces or people in place to make that vision a reality. You have to be a little bit of a salesperson, know how to negotiate, and be an expert communicator to succeed. You have to figure out what you can do with the resources that you have. Sometimes the vision you want for the product isn’t always ideal, but that’s okay. You just have to adjust and keep the team moving forward to make sure the needs of the user are met.
What is your favorite part about being a product designer or a designer in general?
Primarily, I find the creative problem-solving aspect of product design interesting because the problems we’re trying to solve are pretty complex. It takes many different methods and ways of thinking to understand what the user needs to build a suitable experience for them. I find it both challenging and rewarding to solve a problem that changes as your understanding of the users and their behaviors evolve.
I’ve also always been somebody that loves being a part of a team, so the collaborative aspect of being a designer is also something that I enjoy. There’s something so refreshing about collaborating with people from entirely different disciplines and backgrounds, all working towards a common goal of helping people find unique and creative goods.
Do you have any long-term career goals for yourself?
There’s an ongoing joke about designers where after they spend a good amount of time in the digital space or the product design industry, they end up becoming craftspeople, working with their hands, and finishing their career that way. I feel like that could be a reality for me, maybe 10 to 15 years from now, but who knows?
In the short term, I have many ambitions and goals that I want to accomplish as a product designer. I get a lot of satisfaction from collaboration, working in teams, and helping people achieve their goals, so becoming a product design manager is definitely an area of interest. I am also interested in going down the route of pursuing design operations, still supporting teams, just differently. I’d like to help amplify design’s impact and value at scale. Those are the two directions that I think I could take my career in the short term and align well with my interests and strengths.
Can you share your experience of being a person of color in tech & design?
As an Asian American, and more specifically, a gay cis-gendered Filipino American, I acknowledge that I have a proximity to whiteness that grants me certain privileges in the tech and design industry. My experience in tech hasn’t entirely been negative, but I feel like it’s my duty as a person of color to make sure that it’s not a negative experience for others who may not have the same privileges as me.
Therefore, I’m always mindful of the time and space that I take up, I try to advocate for POC-led initiatives, and I’m also intentional about making space for women of color, women, and other POC who might not have the same privileges that I do. I also try to support other organizations working around diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging within the tech industry. For example, I previously mentored with Out in Tech, which helps LGBTQ folks enter into and learn how to navigate the tech industry. Another thing I’ve been doing this year is mentoring designers from underrepresented communities on ADPList as they kick off their careers or figure out how to get into the tech industry.
Another thing that is key to my experience as a person of color in design is acknowledging that imposter syndrome is real. I always try to remind myself that my lived experiences, who I am, and how I show up in spaces are some of my superpowers as a designer. These experiences help me empathize more deeply with users and my co-workers and allow me to provide an alternate perspective that might not always be present in the rooms that I occupy.
“What makes this industry so unique is the people.”
What keeps you motivated to work in design?
I have always been interested in the social impact side of design. I always frame my impact as a designer through that lens. For example, on the surface, Etsy is a marketplace for unique and creative goods, but it’s actually helping a wide range of people become entrepreneurs, take care of their families, pay their bills, and experience a little bit of joy. I love those aspects of what I do. I’m not placing outsized importance on design because it definitely takes a village and lots of teams to make this become a reality. But it’s definitely motivating to think that I’m able to help people become their own bosses with design. On the buyer side, I can help people creatively express themselves through the things they purchase.
You’ve been in this field for some time now. Have you noticed anything changing about it?
I am noticing a lot less gatekeeping and barriers to entry in the design community due to a large proliferation of programs that help people acquire the skills to become designers, which I think is great. In general, all of the focus that we have been placing on getting more diverse people and people of color into product design roles has been really exciting for me to see. We often get in our own way, or we let our biases prevent us from extending opportunities to people who would not otherwise be getting those opportunities. So I think there is growing democratization of design and product design in general.
What do you think makes this industry so unique?
What makes this industry so unique is the people and how they incorporate their own perspectives, skills, and lived experiences into their work. The skills you need to be successful in the design industry are incredibly broad. I have seen this, especially at Etsy. Everyone brings so many different skills and perspectives to the table. Although we all have the same title of “product designer,” we might execute our work in different ways that still get us to the same outcomes. Somebody’s thought process can be wildly different from mine. They can address the issue differently but still result in helping the user accomplish their goal.
I learned you host a podcast called The Creative Comeup, where you interview other creators about how they got into the industry and their work. How did this idea come to be?
Every year, I like to set goals or challenge myself by picking up side projects or doing things that would force me to work on a skill that I could get better at. For example, this year, I challenged myself to mentor forty-plus people to get into the design industry. These opportunities give me better mentoring and coaching skills, but they also allow me to practice necessary soft skills if I decide to go down the management route.
The Creative Comeup was one of those opportunities for me, selfishly, to practice my public speaking skills, moderate conversations, and things like that. I ultimately knew that I wanted to do something around the topic of creativity because I had so many creative friends that did not have access to a platform to tell their story and describe what creativity meant to them. I saw that as a goldmine of an opportunity to practice those conversational skills while allowing them to tell that story. I also love this idea that I have a moment with this person that is kind of cemented in time, that I can listen back to years from now that will remind me of exactly where I was during 2019 and 2020.
“Becoming a designer and breaking into the industry requires a lot of physical and mental fortitude.”
What advice would you give to aspiring designers?
There are three pieces of advice that I would give to aspiring designers or people trying to break into the industry. My first piece of advice is that I highly encourage the act of self-care. Drink water. Take care of your mental health. Be proactive about preventing burnout. It’s inevitable. You constantly need to do so many things to stay relevant, stay on top of the latest trends, network, etc., to continue being successful as a designer in this industry. Becoming a designer and breaking into the industry requires a lot of physical and mental fortitude. I encourage people to really take care of themselves.
The second thing is to establish an authentic relationship with either a mentor, advocate, sponsor or somebody you trust. I emphasize “authentic relationships” because not everyone will be a good mentor, sponsor, or advocate for you. Authentic relationships take time, so the first interaction may not be the one where you think, “Hey, this is the person that I want to be my mentor.” Cultivate that relationship and be in it for the long haul because they will be the ones that will help open up doors for you. Find people who will help you fill in those gaps in your skillset while giving you encouragement and pushing you when you need it, and providing you with necessary, critical feedback.
The last piece of advice is to lean into your unique story and strengths to help you stand out among the crowds. Being on the hiring side of the design industry, if your portfolio doesn’t stand out or if you are not telling your story in the right way, you will get placed at the bottom of the pile. Use every opportunity, every touchpoint, to make a lasting impression with your personal brand. Whether it’s through your portfolio, resume, how you communicate in an email, YouTube video, etc., make sure it’s consistent and make sure it’s unique to you.
You grew up in the Bay Area, but you’re now in NYC. Do you prefer the West Coast or East Coast?
West Coast! I’m a California boy.
If you could be anywhere in the world right now, where would it be?
Back in California with my family.
What song describes your life right now?
“Run to the Sun” by N.E.R.D.
Seeing you’re into basketball, what is your dream team to play for if you could be in the NBA?
Easy, the Warriors!