Design x Gordon Baty
Head of User Experience at Delta Dental
Illustration by Casey Magnuson
Interview conducted by Michelle Berois on March 23, 2021
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
I’m from England and grew up in the home counties, which are just around London. I moved to the States close to 20 years ago, so a lot of people ask me if I’m Australian or from New Zealand because my accent has faded over the years. I’m still very much a Brit at heart. I think my most formative experiences were all centered around London, which I still think is one of the greatest cities I’ve ever encountered. It’s so diverse and has such a strong creative culture. It’s the closest thing I’ve seen to a true melting pot. There’s a lot of cities that have very diverse pockets, but then the pockets don’t really mix. I think in London, you really see a true melting pot of those different cultures, so really great things come out of that. I feel that’s been a huge impact on me and my approach, in general to design as well as work.
Was there a specific moment when you discovered you wanted to do design?
I didn’t really know what I wanted to do with myself. I didn’t have a path laid down in front of me or a burning desire to do a specific thing. I just knew that I was artistic, in some way, and I had an analytical side as well, but it didn’t make me fit into the typical sort of pigeonholes very well. So I was a little bit of a misfit, and I struggled with that.
I was torn between going to art school and going to university. I ended up doing psychology, which I think was a great choice. I still really love that subject, especially cognitive psychology. We had a guest lecturer one day while I was doing my psychology degree. Her name was Joy Mountford, who was the Head of Human Interface at Apple at that time. Back then, user interfaces were still something that people were beginning to talk about. It wasn’t that much of a thing, the way it is now. UX as a discipline didn’t really exist.
She showed us all these different design concepts that they were working on. Here I was, sitting in this lecture hall, and my mind just exploded. And I knew right then that this was my thing. This is how I bring my creative side, analytical side, and interest in people together. I thought to myself, “I’ve got to go and do this.” So, I found out about this thing called human–computer interaction, which was this sort of nascent field that has now turned into UX.
I found there were probably only like four places in the world that had a master’s in that field at the time. Fortunately, one of them was in London, so I moved back and I got my master’s, and learned all about how to be a human factors or human–computer interaction professional. And that’s what got me on the path. I was really fortunate that I was able to find that track fairly early on and it just caught me that way.
Where do you source inspiration from?
What a great question. I think we don’t talk about inspiration enough. It’s a really critical part of the process. Inspiration is an interesting, multifaceted thing. You can look around and see what other people have done and draw inspiration from that. You can see examples of different executions that people have attempted, where it succeeded and where it’s failed. That’s your basic source of inspiration.
But then it gets a little more interesting when you start looking at analogies and things outside your field. Take inspiration from comparable but different experiences or design solutions, where there’s something in common with the challenge you’re trying to solve. It really exists in a different frame for some reason. I think that that gets really powerful. It helps you think outside of your box, which I think is very hard to do. You need tools to do that.
One of them is this thing of analogous inspiration where you allow yourself to step outside of your domain and say, “Okay, who else is doing something that is equivalent, but really different, and what can I draw from that?” I think that’s a huge one.
And then the other thing is people. The first source of inspiration I mentioned was looking at design execution that’s been done elsewhere. Then you have the connection with the people that are in your design ecosystem. There’s a lot of empathy exercises you can do to get you halfway there, but there is nothing like getting in front of that person, talking to them, and hearing their story. Stepping into their shoes and understanding what motivates them every day is the most powerful inspiration you can get. There’s no substitute for it.
“Stepping into their shoes and understanding what motivates them every day is the most powerful inspiration you can get.”
I have done a lot of customer research, so I can guarantee you that there’s going to be something that surprises you and gives you a fresh take on an opportunity for inspiration. I think that’s a really easy one that people miss.
What do you think are some of the challenges that designers are facing today?
It’s changed so much over the years. I think there are some challenges that don’t go away. There’s this age-old tension between the aspirations of design and the practicalities of what can be built and how fast. That’s always there as a frustration and a source of tension. I think we’re in a constant state of always looking for better ways to tackle that. I think Agile has really helped a lot in creating a better dynamic. I almost wanted to walk away from design, back in the waterfall days, because that dynamic was so bad.
That’s why I think we’re in a better place now, but the challenges that we have now are trying to keep up with the whole rapid sprint cadence of delivery you get with Agile. It sits awkwardly within the design process. It’s not a comfortable situation for design. So we have a lot to work on there. I think we’re making progress with this design runway process that we’ve been working on, which allows the UX team sufficient time to do their due diligence in mapping out things at a high level prior to development work starting. That’s been a good step forward. But it’s definitely not the end of the story.
We’ve gotten really mature with things like design systems and the tools that designers use. We’ve graduated out of using Photoshop to design pages and then coming up with a fresh set of components every time. That wasn’t good when we were doing that. I think we’re on the cusp of another revolution where even the design system gets more automated into the process. There’s a lot of talk about low-code and no-code, and I think those are pretty immature platforms right now, but at some point that’s going to converge with our design tools.
Design is going to take a really interesting turn where the role of the designer is going to be transformed, and will probably be more about manipulating components and creating really effective flows, and less about structuring those individual interactions and design on the page. Not really sure what that looks like but it feels like that’s pretty close.
“Design is going to take a really interesting turn where the role of the designer is going to be transformed...”
What are some topics that are really interesting to you that are being talked about in the design industry right now?
We’ve got to always be on top of constant change, the maturing of our tools and our abilities to design. What’s also been really cool and interesting is how the whole conversation around accessibility and inclusion has been elevated in the last few years. It’s always been there as a responsibility of design, but I think there’s been a kind of awakening. A real sense of purpose and some really deliberate methods to ensure that there truly is accessibility and that it’s not just this afterthought where we’re “checking the box.” It’s much more meaningful.
I personally have done a lot of hiring in the last six or seven years. It’s pretty striking when you realize how limited our talent pool is to very specific kinds of channels that people come in through. I think we’re at a point where we are disappointed with that and we want to change it. But it takes more than just kind of talking about how it should be. There has to be some real systematic change. That’s where the work comes in.
How would you describe design’s role at Delta Dental, and how does design fit into everything?
That’s been a bit of a journey, and I think we’re still on that journey. When I joined there was this Agile transformation kicking off with the Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe) and that was a huge impact to the framing of design. Unfortunately SAFe doesn’t frame design and kind of leaves it out. It goes into great detail on how you should have scrum masters, technologists, architecture, and all these things about technical delivery, but does a little bit of hand waving when it comes to UX.
It doesn’t provide a defined role for design or the research process, which is a huge omission. So, the first challenge I had was to try and show that this nascent design team actually had a meaningful position in the Agile system that was getting constructed. That was really quite a battle. Not that I was fighting anybody but I was really fighting this definition, where people would go back to the rulebook and say, “Well there’s nothing in here about a design team, so we really don’t need one.”
UX is a well-established best practice. Just because your rulebook doesn’t say that, doesn’t mean we don’t get to have one. So that’s been kind of the big theme. I think that challenge has pretty much passed. We’re very well-established in the delivery ecosystem here. I think we’re in a really interesting place now where the customer experience (CX) team is getting a whole new charter, to have a strategic role, and be a driving force for how we think about all execution in the company.
Instead of being an add-on to Agile, design is the supporter of strategic, customer-centric execution. And that is the pinnacle of design team maturity and where you want to be, when you’re there to realize customer-centric strategy at an enterprise level.
I think that’s where we’re at now and we’re focused on working very closely with CX, product, and technology to figure out how we do that in practice, and build on all the good things we’ve done to get us to this point.
Beyond being the director of UX, you’re also known for being an excellent facilitator and have a knack for fostering collaboration between all kinds of teams. What do you think are some of the key skills or traits that are necessary to be a successful facilitator?
I don’t really think of myself as being a good facilitator—I’ve just gotten a lot of practice. I think good facilitation is a combination of things. Workshop facilitation is really about understanding the design process and moving through that process, so that you’re solving the problem. Really good facilitation is being aware of that and not just getting through this one task that we’re doing, but understanding how it contributes to solving that design challenge. You have to stay on your toes and constantly reassess whether it’s solving it or not and you’re getting what you need. That’s my overall approach.
The other part is making sure you are being inclusive and bringing in different perspectives. It’s really easy for facilitators to get caught up in the moment of delivering the activity as they envisioned and being a bit too micromanaging and anxious about that. In reality, you actually kind of have to let go.
When you’re facilitating, you’re trying to guide the group in solving that challenge together, you’re not controlling them. So you have to step back and encourage them to bring their full range of perspectives and insights to the table. It’s really more about helping elicit that, encourage it, and create this sense of safety.
Often I’m facilitating situations where it’s an odd situation for people who are used to a regular 9-to-5 job and are focused on just getting the job done. All of a sudden they’re in this weird workshop applying design thinking, and it’s very uncomfortable for them. A lot of it is about creating an environment where they feel able to raise their voice and take ownership of the design process, even though they probably haven’t seen it before.
I think the biggest challenge of facilitation is that you can create this magic in the workshop, but if there is no impetus to keep the work moving forwards afterwards, then it’s a failure. You have to figure out how to keep people running in that mode. They’re obviously not going to completely stay in that mode, so you have to figure out how to keep an element of that alive.
Another is how you create the connection between the shared point of view, and the solution that you’re co-creating in the workshop with the actual day-to-day delivery. That’s the thing that I’ve been trying to figure out the last couple of years—having a really strong connection, so they don’t walk out of the workshop and think it was amazing but are unsure of what to do next.
Is there someone or something that influenced you to be who you are today?
I’ve never had a compelling mentor or anything like that, sadly, but learning design thinking definitely changed my life. When I learned what that was, it was like unlocking a piece of my brain that had been dormant. You can’t turn it off once you’ve turned it on. That was pretty special so mainly I’d say the folks at IDEO—a design and consulting firm who uses a design thinking approach to design products, services, environments, and digital experiences—definitely impacted me.
“When I learned what that was, it was like unlocking a piece of my brain that had been dormant.”
What kind of advice would you give to junior designers or for those people who are interested in getting into UX design?
It’s tough when you’re a brand new designer because you’re really assessed based on your portfolio and your experience. You need to be able to show what you’ve done and how you did it. It’s tough, at the beginning of your career, to have anything really substantive. People come into UX from many different paths and courses.
Be authentic. Don’t try to hide the fact that you have limited experience because it’s still relevant. The flipside of that is to go out and get experience. There’s so many opportunities out there to help somebody who’s trying to create an app or do a gig on Fiverr. There’s so many different ways that you can do design, whether it’s for a cause or a team or somebody that will give you that extra little bit of experience. It’s another way to add to your portfolio that demonstrates how you tackled design challenges, and shows that you’re motivated to do that outside of whatever courses you took. That will definitely elevate you above the crowd.
Another thing is to show range as well. I think a lot of junior designers are scared to present things which are beyond just what they think is the core of the job they’re signing up for. I’m always thrilled to see sketches, artwork, and photography that reveals their range as a creative. I get particularly excited when people have gone out and done research in the process. Going back to our conversation about inspiration earlier, designers who have made that part of their design process is a very good sign. Not necessarily because they’re going to be doing it but because it indicates how their design process and thought process operates.
Thinking back now on your experience and all the different companies you’ve worked at, has there been any kind of project that you worked on that you’re especially proud of or really enjoyed working on?
Back when I worked at the media company, I was on their innovation team. We really styled ourselves after IDEO and their design process. This company had lots of different smaller operations in local markets, mostly in the Midwest, but across the country.
What we would do is drop into one of those markets with a design challenge. We would explore the market, talk to interesting local people and do these mini ethnographies to help us come up with meaningful solutions. It was pretty special work. I don’t know if I’ll ever get to do anything that cool again.
Rapid Fire Questions
What is your favorite book or podcast?
My favorite book right now is The Beautiful Ones, which is Prince’s autobiography. What I like about it, that people probably don’t often know is that he was a creative leader. He had a lot of challenges around staying creative and fresh and doing that with a team (which was his band), and he liked to influence a lot of people around him. He had a lot of people he worked with on music and gave them opportunities. As a design leader, I relate to it in a really interesting way.
If you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be?
That’s a tough question. Hawaii and Costa Rica are probably my favorite places that I’ve been to. Thailand is also just gorgeous. The culture is wonderful. The food and scenery are amazing.
