Design x Terrence Williams
Senior Design Lead at Salesforce
Illustration by Bonnie Kate Wolf
Interview conducted by Michelle Berois on September 2, 2020
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
I’m from Kentucky, born and raised. I grew up in a small rural community, so all throughout school, I was the only person of color in a lot of spaces. That definitely has had an impact on me. I’m hyper-aware of my environment and how I’m perceived in the room, but it also taught me how to navigate those spaces and just be relatable with people that I don’t seem to have a lot in common with. I learned to be empathetic and understand them at a deeper level.
I’m the youngest of 10 siblings on my father’s side, but I’m very close with a number of them. That also taught me how to find commonality in a room full of very different personalities. That’s kind of been a thread for me, with friendship, family, identifying as Black and queer. Knowing I’m perceived as different is something I learned to embrace.
“Knowing I’m perceived as different is something I learned to embrace.”
I grew up in the South so I did some outdoorsy things like hunting and fishing, but I definitely was more on the tech side. While everyone else was out riding dirt bikes, I was at home playing Nintendo or Genesis.
I went to the University of Louisville’s Hite Art Institute to study 2D drawing and painting. I love drawing and doing acrylic painting, but I realized that I needed to make money, and I didn’t know if I was going to be the famous artist that I’d dreamed of in my head. I discovered design through a friend of mine, so I explored it and realized it’s the marriage of tech and art, which were both my interests—I had built computers and was constantly looking into what the next gadgets were, but also thinking about what expressive pieces of art could live on those devices. Design just felt perfect, so I went all in.
It was a small program, so we were a very tight knit group. I actually still keep in touch with a number of my colleagues and one of my professors. Even today, I still find ways to reach back and help. Being the only Black person in the program, finding community but feeling isolated and alone, I wanted to have mentors that looked like me or understood my experience of being Black or queer. I really strive to make that a reality for those coming into this profession now. The internet is more sophisticated now, so there’s a lot more access, tools, and knowledge at students’ disposal today, but many underrepresented minority kids may not even know it’s an option. That happens a lot in more underserved communities, where they just don’t have the resources, time, support, or whatever it may be. Giving them access to design careers is something that’s really important to me.
After undergrad, I went to Chicago and got my first “big boy” job. I was designing, but it wasn’t the kind of creative work I wanted to be doing. It was an appraisal association that did seminar courses and workbooks, so I was designing those materials. The work did strengthen my layout and typesetting skills, but it was not an outlet. I needed to find a more creative space. I went into advertising, which was the complete opposite of all of that. I learned so much and made a lot of lifelong connections, but it also was crazy. It moves fast. You sacrifice time because you’re working a lot, and you’re asked to travel at the drop of a hat. It also was not an inclusive environment in the way that we like to think. Conversations are happening now in making that better, but it was kind of toxic. Back then, I didn’t have the understanding to label it that way, but there were a lot of things that I was surprised were being said, done, and tolerated at work. There was that trade-off of being exposed to a lot of bad stuff but also all these opportunities and really creative work.
Then I did design consulting, which focused on workshops and facilitation. I went from this production, worker-bee mentality to a place where you use your voice more, give your perspective, capture the feedback, and synthesize all of that. You’re not just there to comment on visuals or “make it pretty”—you have way more to offer. You do copywriting, proofreading, concepting, strategy, and storytelling, and then you design something around all those things. So consulting flipped a switch for me. “Yes, you’re creative, but you also have this strategic mindset, and you also have this other perspective to offer on the business side of things.”
Some of our consulting partners were Salesforce employees, so that’s how I got exposed to a design opportunity at Salesforce. I’d been in Chicago for nine years at that point, since undergrad, so I was ready for a change. When I was offered the role, I had the option to stay in Chicago or come to San Francisco. I’d never been to San Francisco and didn’t know anything about it, but when I visited I fell in love with it.
It was so sunny and so different, with the hills, the people, and so much culturally happening here. It was very different from the Midwest. I don’t think there’s anywhere else like the Bay, in terms of the people, the opportunities, and obviously the tech-centric work environments. So now I’m here as an adult. It’ll be three years in October, and I’ve had so many opportunities that I never thought would happen.
During AIGA San Francisco’s Fireside Chat “Leading with Courage,” you talked about relationship design. Could you tell us what that is and what it means to you?
I’m on a team at Salesforce called Salesforce Experience, externally branded as Salesforce Design. We focus on how design can be leveraged to do more good in the world by strengthening relationships between people, and creating communities that really support and learn from one another. We embody the mindsets of courage, compassion, intention, and reciprocity. We try to make sure we’re giving back as much as we’re taking in each relationship. I like to say, “Yes, we’re listening and we hear you, and we want that perspective, but we also need to challenge that so that you can also see opportunities to grow that you may not have seen.”
That means being really intentional about your network and how those relationships impact you. We all do relationship design, even if we aren’t all designers. We like to ask, “What are the values that really fuel and inspire everyone on the team to do the work that they do? Do those values align with the product and the people engaging it?” Salesforce makes and sells CRM, customer relationship management products, so as a company we’re really relationship-focused. You can have this awesome product, but if you don’t nurture that relationship by understanding how people interact with it and how they represent themselves in an industry or in the world, there’s a lot that can be misconstrued or just a lot of missed opportunities.
I realized I can really leverage my network to empower designers and underrepresented groups to understand what the field offers and what they can offer the field. That’s now a top priority for me. I always try to amplify that messaging around relationships and relationship design. We use design as a tool to improve the world. Society has designed things that hold certain people back from specific opportunities or just being present in the world. So why not use design to fix those things, to dismantle them and replace them with something better?
Design is at the intersection of so much. There’s so much that design touches, and it’s invisible. We don’t think about it. We think it’s just the system working. When we start thinking deeper about how it came to be, about the relationships, we start asking, “Who implemented that feature, and why? What did they think through? What was their background? Who were the people that influenced them?” Then you can almost reverse-engineer the solution and understand who they designed it for and what they didn’t consider.
You’re deconstructing a lot of the stuff that’s out there and trying to have a deeper understanding of it. It’s giving ourselves license to ask why we’re building these solutions. Whether you’re in a big company or you’re a freelancer or somewhere in between, you should feel that power and use it. It’s important and it keeps us all in check and in balance.
What are some ways that designers can use their power to lead with courage to help move that needle forward when it comes to racial equality?
Design with the audience, not for it. I think a lot of people have good intentions when they say, “We want to design a program for this group of people that doesn’t have the platform to do XYZ for themselves,” but they’re not actually asking the group what they need, working with them, or thinking through who they’re elevating.
“Design with the audience, not for it.”
Not everyone is equipped to take on an initiative like that yet. Maybe they’re just trying to figure out their own journey. Really understand who’s willing to raise their hand, who wants to learn, who may not be comfortable yet but also wants to come along. Ask for and understand the role that people want to play, when providing those resources and that access.
Sometimes companies are having conversations around race and equality, but they’re not asking the people in their organization if they even feel psychologically safe, or if they even feel like that solution is actually going to make an impact. Is this just something self-gratifying for the company and leadership? Or are they asking, “Is this what our employees of color, or our employees who are LGBTQ+, or our employees of other groups want? Is it what they needed? Is it accessible? Are we doing all the things we can to make that happen?”
Ask what could be there, and be open to that work. I think people have good intentions, but when they are challenged by people that are not in positions of power, there could be this wall that goes up, like “Well, I’m trying to help.” There’s this discomfort. You have to have that vulnerability and really be willing to hear it out. It’s not all going to be good, because if it was all good we wouldn’t be here having this conversation right now. Just having that openness and willingness to listen to the needs and requirements of those groups of people will go a long way.
What motivated you to be part of the speaker panel “Leading with Courage”? If there was a specific situation where you had to lead with courage, how did that unfold for you?
I’ll be very transparent. I was nominated to participate, and I always try to ask if I’m the right voice—I don’t want to ever take up space if I can’t add to the conversation in a productive way.
But I did have a situation at work where I wasn’t being heard by a senior creative, and I was being undermined and a narrative was being formed about me because I spoke up about things that were clearly wrong or toxic. I knew this shouldn’t be okay, especially in a place that embodies our values and wants the best for employees.
So I said something about not getting proper critique, not getting advocacy, not being on a clear track to promotion, and also just surprising insensitivities about race, about people with families. Where was that empathy? Where’s the understanding that schedules can be busy, or that people can go through personal things in their lives that do impact their work? These folks weren’t dropping the ball—they’re very intelligent and capable. But the leadership wasn’t seeing that.
Honestly, I don’t want to blame leadership. I think that leader was just emulating what had been done to them before, so it’s a cycle. If nobody speaks up, it repeats until it becomes the culture, where if you speak up then you’re not a team player and that’s a problem. When one person does speak up, like I did, you start hearing these little whispers, like “Actually I thought that too.” People get that they’re not the only ones, but that won’t happen if nobody says anything.
So that was the catalyst. It wasn’t like I looked in the mirror and thought, “I’m brave and I’m gonna say these things!” No, it was scary. It was more like, “Am I gonna lose my job? Be demoted or put on a performance plan?” All those thoughts go through your head.
But I knew, in my case, I was doing the work, I was doing it well, and I was getting praise, so it made no sense to still feel like I’m not thriving in this situation. How can there be such a paradox? I reached that point where I had to either remove myself from it or speak up. Something had to happen. So I chose to speak up in that moment.
What advice would you give to people who are experiencing the same situation but are afraid to speak up?
First of all, stop and think about the landscape of everything. Is there a trusted person that you can get an unbiased view from? I had to ask, “Okay, is this me, or is this something that’s actually happening but nobody is talking about?” I thought about folks that I knew were impartial and honest and cared about values that aligned with my own. And it’s like, “Okay, so I’m not alone in this. There’s something happening here.” Validate yourself and your own feelings. Don’t look for that validation in other people, but make sure you’re keeping yourself honest.
Then give the feedback. It doesn’t mean you just go in guns blazing. You have to have empathy too, about why this might be happening. I exhausted all those options, trying to assess the situation, the makeup of the team, what the team’s health was before I decided I needed to speak up. There are some situations where you don’t even need to do all that because you know you’re not comfortable, so you absolutely should speak up. But in my case, I needed to be sure, so I was documenting and understanding everything that I was experiencing. I presented my case. “These are things I’m seeing and how it’s impacting the work and the health of the team. I’m concerned. What can we do? How can we better partner?” If you can come from that place of warmth and concern, I think that is huge.
If you’re met with a wall, escalate. Speak to someone above them or someone that has been leading in this way a little longer, has more expertise, or has done it in a healthier way to have a conversation. Ask yourself, “If it goes poorly, can it be any worse than this moment and can you continue doing this day to day?”
Be authentic and honest with yourself. If you know there are things you could have done better, acknowledge that, like “I’m owning this. But how can we partner better and how can we both share accountability with one another?” Don’t hold it in and don’t settle, because you don’t have to. That mental block is sometimes harder than even the reactions, the outcome, and the fallout that you might anticipate because you’ve already concocted this scenario in your head. You can’t always do that. If people always lay low, think about how much would not change in the world.
“If people always lay low, think about how much would not change in the world.”
What are some topics right now that are important to you in the design industry?
This comes up and goes away, but you know how all of these voice assistants have what we consider female names or female identities? If you’re going to have Alexa, have an Alex! Just have it be neutral. Why does it even need to be male or female? I have a friend that changed their Alexa to respond to “Computer.” It sounds funny, like 1980s sci-fi, but it’s good. Why do we have to box ourselves in?
In the design community, I am noticing this younger generation of designers of color that aren’t following the traditional track of going to a four-year university. You don’t need that to learn, and people that did do that track want to change their careers. Why do we have to be locked into an expensive four-year degree, just to do something that requires you to learn the principles or elements and put it into practice while getting critique and feedback?
I’m not diminishing the education—it is helpful. But do I think it’s always required? Probably not. Companies are starting to do away with requiring a BFA for their designer positions. It goes back to what I was saying about access. You can decide to put an effort into doing design, networking, learning, talking with peers, and shadowing or participating in something like General Assembly. There are so many options. It doesn’t have to be getting this degree and working a specific amount of years.
There’s this post on LinkedIn making fun of a creative director position that wanted all of these degrees and years of experience in software and campaigns, and it was like, “But no pay.” It’s like comedy. The design profession is respected but then it’s not, at the same time. If a company wants to cut funding, creative or design are usually the areas that get targeted, and it’s really unfortunate. I think people are starting to see the value in design, which is why my team is dedicated to elevating the practice. We’re talking about relationship design as a way of thinking and working, which can help people solve problems and bring humanity into tech and business.
A lot of leadership is slowly starting to understand the impact that design has on an organization, beyond just visuals or a marketing campaign, that it goes much deeper and is much more sophisticated. I’m excited to see that folks in tech and other industries are acknowledging that design is important and are trying to make design careers more accessible.
I used to have this very clear mental image of a designer—a white guy with a scarf, dark-rimmed glasses, trendy haircut, drinking coffee. Why? It shouldn’t be. Anyone could be a creative director, an art director, a lead designer, a chief creative, a chief design officer. Salesforce has a chief design officer. That shift is happening where someone who promotes design thinking can have just as much respect and visibility as a CMO. And now the work is, how do we get access to those roles to everyone across the board, so it’s not male-dominated or white-dominated? How can we make sure it’s truly diverse?
What are some of the challenges that young designers of color are facing right now?
I actually attended the conference Black Designers Ignite just last Friday, and a recurring theme I heard was access. You don’t need to buy an expensive Adobe Creative Cloud subscription to be able to design because now there’s Figma and all these other tools. There’s still an assumption that you have internet access and a machine to run it, and that’s another barrier to be broken down. But I remember that struggle of having to buy software. I remember my family pulling together money for me to buy a Mac because it was preferred for the program. I love seeing that people are getting creative and not feeling so boxed into the identity I described of a designer. I’m glad it’s changing.
Young people are also forming communities, having discussions and panels, making sites and resources for one another. I love that. This generation cares about what’s happening in society, and they’re using design to do something about it, not just reading or talking about things. They’re realizing they can use these tools, these skills, and their voices for good.
I’ve seen people try to diminish the value that brings, but designers have always had this obligation. There are ethics behind creating products that so many people interact with and that really form their perception of the world. Design is a very powerful tool, and everyone should be encouraged to use it for good. We should not try to stand in the way of that.
You’re part of a team at Salesforce called BOLDforce (Black Organization for Leadership and Development). Tell us about that and what your role is.
BOLDforce is the Black equality group, and it’s enabled me to have more visibility and more of a platform to work on initiatives that I care about. It creates a more just environment, and it doesn’t stop within our walls. A lot of the things we do impact people all over because we’re a global company. Conversations about Black Lives Matter—about Jacob Blake and George Floyd and all these other things—are happening all over the world, so what the equality group does is allow you to have a community and a safe space to talk about these things, participate in community-based VTO (volunteer time-off). I’d never been at a company that created a space for employees to talk about what’s impacting them on their team or how comfortable or uncomfortable they’ve been. When you’re able to reach out to one another, it just helps so much. For Salesforce to offer that and do that is huge.
I personally work on the comms and branding for my team, so I always try to make sure our communications are true to the message, true to the values of the company, and also true to what I represent as a person. As I sit here and describe my experiences at the company—I feel very privileged and lucky to be in this position, to be at this company, and to be able to do these things and not be fearful for my role if we do an MLK activation or support Black businesses during this time. I think more tech companies are offering similar spaces now, but I still feel really lucky to be a part of BOLDforce and to be able to do these things.
What are some ways that designers at companies without these initiatives can help create positive change?
Don’t be afraid to go outside of your immediate network or team. When I didn’t have these, I would reach out to communities and organizations on my own. I’ve been involved with AIGA since college, and I don’t think I would have done half the things I did if I didn’t reach out. The amount of community I found through them is just as important because I didn’t have the backing of the company or an employee resource group, which is newer to me. I went through different design-focused organizations, but I think there’s way more tools now. You can find Black design organizations or queer design organizations. Find your community and don’t be afraid to reach out.
Reach out to people on LinkedIn, like “Hi, I saw you here, you’re doing good work and I want to be a part of that.” Sometimes we get in our own way because we don’t want to feel embarrassed or look desperate. Let that go. Just reach out to people. You’d be so surprised. Get on your platform and speak up, like, “Hey, I work in this industry, I do this, I want to create this. Is anyone interested in it?” It might start slowly, but it does work. You just have to invest in it and give it time.
It might not feel natural to reach out to a stranger, but what’s the alternative? Continue to be isolated? Continue to not have an advocate? I think it’s worth the risk of that brief moment of embarrassment or rejection. Some people may not want to engage and that’s okay. There’s degrees of comfort and degrees of ways to give back and help. Find people that are on the same wavelength as you and in the similar phases of their journey. Then you can unite, create something, and go on that journey together. Think outside the box, and meet people outside of your immediate circle.
“Think outside the box, and meet people outside of your immediate circle.”
What advice do you have for junior and aspiring designers in general?
When I was younger, not in the industry myself, I read a ton of magazines, found a ton of tutorials in design books. You need to expose yourself to good work. It could be any type of design, or just design thinking. Realize that design is a broad practice. There are people that have roles that may not say “designer” in the title, but they are doing design. Be more agnostic in the way you view design, and understand that there are many ways to approach it.
If you’re actively looking for a role or something around design, I would look at people that you aspire to be. Visualize yourself in that space, in that role. Be comfortable learning, being flexible, and understanding that you won’t have all the answers. Have a growth mindset. If you go in with this rigid idea of what it should be, it won’t go very far for a long time. Have an open mind and look at the people doing the work you want to do. Look at their journey. I’m not saying you should just make your playbook based on their life, but understand the many ways in which you can get there. Reach out to those people. “Hey, I want to do this. How can I get into that industry? Will you mentor me?”
Getting a mentor does not mean all the work is on the mentor. Come up with questions and understand what you’d like to get out of that interaction and that relationship, especially if this person is very senior and very busy. Realize all mentors are not equal. Some may have way more time and more access, and others may have more expertise in that area you’re trying to break into. Don’t be afraid to have multiple mentors. You want your own “team” with different perspectives to mold your journey.
Do volunteer work. Give back and pay it forward. If you learn something and you have influence or access to certain groups, use it to give back and use it to help people. I’m a big believer in good energy and karma. What you put out there will come back to you. Someone you’ve helped, someone you’ve reached out to for advice, things come full circle. I think that will get you started and cause you to go very far.
