Design x Charlene Fan
Interaction Designer at Bank of America
Illustration by Bonnie Kate Wolf
Interview conducted by Victoria Du on August 6, 2020
Tell us a little bit about yourself.
I am an interaction designer focusing on voice technologies at Bank of America. I think about the overall strategy, the user flows, how people manage their finances, and how we can make that easier. I got into voice technology in graduate school, when I focused on it for my capstone. Before that, I did general UX work for three years.
You studied biology in college; how did you switch over to design?
Yeah, I was working as a medical assistant when I realized I didn’t want to go to medical school or nursing school. A friend told me, “Hey, you might really like user experience research.” I wasn’t aware of the term “user experience” at first, but the ability to think about others, have empathy, and create things that really benefit them was something that I already valued. I ended up doing a bootcamp that opened up a whole new world. I just kept learning and growing, gaining freelance and in-house experience until I eventually took a deep dive into the field with my Master’s.
Did your background in biology help you on your journey becoming a designer?
Absolutely. For my health sciences undergrad, I had to take classes in psychology, sociology, and cognitive sciences, which form the background of interaction design. My skills in analyzing data have proved really valuable because now I sort through unstructured voice intents to tease out meaningful insights.
Other than my science background, I loved making cards and graphics for my friends, and I was interested in journalism and publications, so I have the practical hands-on ability to create products. It’s really a mishmash of everything that gave me my current skill set.
Are there any topics in your industry that are particularly interesting to you right now?
There’s been a lot of discussion about biases. We create personas by ascribing attributes to a composite figure to represent a market segment while introducing empathy through human-like qualities like name, age, and a picture. But we wondered if we subconsciously reinforce biases when we describe people in these personas, since we all have biases. I really like Spotify’s personas, which have neon colors for hair and skin, so they still have human features but their racial identities and backgrounds are more ambiguous. It still allows for empathy towards the human-like personas while minimizing biases.
It’s interesting because we also talk about the concept of being colorblind, and how being colorblind could prevent you from addressing things that are there. When you don’t see color, you might unintentionally harm the users. We need to find the balance between the two. Microsoft uses an ableness spectrum represented by icons to encourage people to acknowledge more user groups and minimize biases. A distracted driver might be temporarily blind, while someone might have only partial vision for medical reasons. There’s a lot to explore when you present these things based on an individual’s environment instead of their condition.
What are some of the challenges that designers face today?
There isn’t a formal curriculum or certification for design, so a lot of designers feel imposter syndrome. Without that validation, it’s like “How do I judge what I have?” I think it’s the ability to really know your voice and the value you produce. Everyone’s skill sets are so unique that there’s a diversity in how people create things, and I think that’s beautiful.
“Everyone’s skill sets are so unique that there’s a diversity in how people create things, and I think that’s beautiful.”
Definitely. On that topic, sometimes job descriptions ask for five to ten years of experience. How much does the amount of experience matter?
I honestly think it depends on what the individual brings to the table. Individuals with five to ten years might be really strong in specific areas of expertise, but there’s something to be said about being able to negotiate cross-functionally without alienating people.
New grads might feel disillusioned, like a cog in the wheel at first, but you start to get your bearings. From there, you’ll be able to better influence people and gather people together. No one should really feel like they need to have five or ten years. I think there’s a unique perspective that fresh eyes bring.
How would you describe your role as a designer at Bank of America?
My role involves thinking about human-centered principles. Some of it is asking what types of information our users need and what ways we can display this information so the user can make informed decisions. Investing, for example, can seem unnecessarily intimidating, so I need to make sure we provide clarity through content strategy, wireframes, and the eventual delivery of the technology through the iterative process. As a T-shaped designer, I follow the whole lifecycle of each project, and then I specialize in interaction.
I’ve learned a lot about finances and different mental models. Some individuals stick to a budget, and that’s what a lot of financial products are geared towards. However, not everyone thinks about their finances that way. People can think in terms of transactions, worth level, intangibles, or experiences. Wealth isn’t always about dollars and cents. Knowing that people might want to work towards experiences or legacy is something to think about in our products. We’re also noticing that people tend to be value-based consumers, so they purchase particular items because they identify with its brand’s mission. Our role is to allow people to make decisions that make them feel good and empowered.
How does designing for the banking industry compare to designing for other industries?
We work a lot with our legal department for the benefit of the consumers, to make sure that we give very clear messaging. There are policies that provide checks and balances for consumers, and we want to be compliant with them, but sometimes that means a whole host of disclosures need to go in my designs. Other fields that are not as highly regulated would not need these.
How is your team structured?
We’re a platform-based team that works across all lines of business at Bank of America. We have a design director, principal visual designers, and associate directors. Our design team has content strategists and interaction designers. We also do research consult. The AI team includes all of our product owners, or our product partners. We have a data team. We also have a speech and nuance team, which focuses a lot more on conversation and natural language processing. Then we have the whole host of engineers, who focus on either our mobile banking app or our conversation side. Our work touches a lot of hands.
What do you think makes your team work well?
I love working with my team. There’s a lot of mutual respect, and it’s highly collaborative. Designers should have empathy for both users and coworkers. We’re actually distributed across the country—in New York, North Carolina, Maryland, Delaware, and California—and we’ve been working collaboratively from the get-go. Everyone’s working remotely now because of COVID-19, but it’s an old habit for us. Our team is really committed, but we have a lot of laughs too.
What are some of the biggest challenges you face in your job?
There’s so much that we want to do that it’s hard to find enough time or resources to produce what we want to create, so prioritization becomes difficult. Part of the challenge is just taking a step back and choosing what is really critical. We want to do everything, so it’s a challenge.
How would you describe your leadership style?
I think of myself like a coach. I view the individuals I work with more like athletes because they are highly talented and competent. As a coach, I help refine their form and make sure that they can perform the best that they can. Leadership also comes from alignment and direction, helping someone channel their energy towards a specific goal, so they’re maximizing all that they can leverage towards it.
Some of my leadership is just working as a shield. Sometimes things are a little bit more chaotic in decision-making on my level, so I wait until that’s more streamlined before I pass it down to the team.
I’m fortunate that I have people that I could look up to, and they very much take care of me. Sometimes I feel like a junior person on the team because of that. It’s a really good feeling.
Do any junior designers you mentor go on to become department heads?
People’s journeys don’t have to end in department-head positions to be considered successful.
“People’s journeys don’t have to end in department-head positions to be considered successful.”
Some individuals prefer to stay at a principal level, the same level as a manager, but they’re still independent contributors. People have different assets. You don’t have to be a manager or a leader to stay at that individual-contributor level.
Mentorship keeps me accountable and re-centers myself in my goals. It’s always rewarding to see what people are up to. The people I mentor have so much creativity that I’m just honored to coach them. They’re really amazing people.
I am fortunate that I will be helping with our new associate interns who will be with us for a whole year. They’re starting at the end of the month. We just had a crew of summer interns who got a chance to give a talk about voice design with some of my team.
What advice would you give to fellow designers out there?
I would tell fellow designers to really look at the work that they create and have pride in it. We can be our own worst critics. We shouldn’t self-sabotage, whether it’s saying “I can’t do this” or “I don’t have the credentials” or “I don’t see anyone else who looks like me.” Your unique viewpoint is so valuable. Really work towards bringing that out and put yourself out there. It might feel vulnerable to share your thoughts, so have courage in that. Just keep on going with what you’re trying to create.
Rapid Fire Questions
What is your favorite thing to do in your free time?
Post-COVID has been kind of fun. I have several hobbies that I cycle through, like playing Animal Crossing on Nintendo Switch, which I’m very much enjoying right now. I like to find new ways to cook, bake, or even make coffee. Also just hanging out with friends and finding ways to go enjoy nature while social distancing.
What is your favorite drama or movie?
I don’t really have a favorite, but I recently found Taste the Nation with Padma Lakshmi really interesting. She goes through the origins of different people’s food and how that explains their culture.
What’s your favorite book or podcast?
My church has been doing a lot for our mental health and spiritual growth while we’re away. There’s a podcast called Reality Daily that my pastor puts out. It helps me recenter and think about bigger things in life, so I’ve been enjoying it.
Who or what inspires you?
My grandmother. When I think of “inspire,” I think about the type of individual and character I want to become, the legacy I want to leave. My grandmother is the type of woman who cares intensely for other people, and she is just so kind and warmhearted. I like to joke that if you come to my house and go away hungry, that means you did not meet my grandmother—she feeds everyone who comes through the hall. She embodies an other-centeredness through care and nurture that I find inspiring.
If you could live anywhere, where would that be, and why?
Honestly, where I’m at right now, I love being in San Francisco. There is a kind of energy, based on maybe the city’s history, as well as the people in the area. I love it here.
